Before beginning a game of Panzers Marsche, I read what people said about it in the archives. Carl and others said the Russian side is harder to get right if you haven't played it before. Halfway through our game, I can concur. In spades. Given each side's forces and the terrain, it seems hard to anticipate what the Germans can do and how it's gonna go. Ever play a scenario where you just seemed to lack a clue until it was too late?
In our game (ongoing, but beyond the point where the Huns have crossed into board 1), Adrian's infantry CX'd across bd 5 and advanced into the stream on turn 1. The halftracks grouped up behind the trees on bd 5 near the bridge. The Panthers swung out to the left (DD row area) to probe for the HIP ATG, which I had placed in 1D8, and to scare away the T-34/85 which had begun the game in 1F8 with turret pointed toward the bridge exit hex. That tank successfully escaped to 1L8, where they sited the bridge while keeping the bmg pointed at the German infantry about to exit the stream.
On turn 2, the Germans smoked the bridge and its exit hex and halftracks crossed and made a beeline for the Russian defenders around 5T10, freezing them with VBM. The Germans placed smoke from the stream and ran onto bd 1. One Panther rumbled across the bridge and stopped and got nailed by the ATG; the remaining two Panthers repositioned themselves on bd 1 so as to see the T-34 in 1L8 while keeping frontal armor to the Russian ATG. In the Russian turn, the Panthers took out the T-34 in L8 when it started up, even with a successful sD6 roll. The second T-34 rolled up to face down the German infantry from the cover of a building a few hexes away.
On turn 3, one Panther MG's stripped the ATG's concealment and the MA blasted the gun crew. Aided by more smoke and armored assault with a HT, German infantry crossed open ground and got next to the remaining T-34, killing it with a PSK. That's where the game currently stands. It's looking tough for the Russians at this point, and I DON'T want any tips on what to do in this particular game, nor am I whining about this game, but I wanted to comment on the Russian setup, at least when faced with this kind of German attack.
First, putting a T-34 in the left rear with LOS to the bridge is nice, but the odds of a hit aren't as good as you'd hope. With the armor leader, CE, boresighted on the bridge with the Germans laying smoke on the bridge, you still need a 6 to hit. If a HT runs across first and lays smoke (either by vehicle smoke grenades or by becoming a blazing wreck), you can add another 2 smoke hindrance and the odds of taking out a Panther get worse. Sure, it's a shot you have to try for, but be mentally ready to miss.
Second, don't underestimate those damn HT's. They lay vehicle smoke, they freeze your defenders with VBM, they protect the German infantry with armored assault, they are from Hell and must be killed. Get the ATR up close to the bridge so that its TK# goes up and you can minimize the case J To Hit mods. Killing HT's is even worth an ATG or T-34 shot. Don't wait for side shots against the Panthers like I did; your ATG gets one shot before appearing on the board (albeit underneath a ? counter if you're lucky) and the Germans won't expose the Panthers' sides after that. Killing 2 HT's is a fine tradeoff for that ATG, at least it so seems to me now.
Third, don't defend up front around 1T10 with just one unit that can be VBM'd or smoked; the Germans are vulnerable coming out of the stream and must be hurt as much as possible there; it's worth it to have two squads up there.
Fourth, think about how your neat plans will change if the German smokes certain hexes. I blew this one big time. Yes, they have to cross a lot of open ground, but what do you do when that open ground suddenly has a +2 smoke counter? Gotta plan for it, me bucko.
Fifth, I like the Russian HMG on the left. Sure wish I had started the game with it there :-) The MTR is nice there too to hit Germans in the stream who try Crest status.
Sixth, don't play Adrian? Man, this one has been a clinic. There will be no AAR, too embarassing :-)
Tom
In Tom's defense Luck has been on my side somewhat. The panther that took out the ATG rolled a 5 with the MGs, a 4 with the HE TH, and a 3 on the effects roll. The PSK shot at the T34/85 was at range 3 with +4 TH, I rolled a 3. In the CC to clear 5S10 I rolled a 2, generated a leader and infiltrated forward. Couple that with Tom rolling a 12 with an IF shot, and 10s and 11s on several IFT attacks ...
I have been making about 8 smoke rolls per Move phase and getting 3 or 4 successes.
German tips:
[Tom's comments on Russian setup options deleted.]
One thing that Tom has forgotten is to use the MGs to kill HTs. A lmg firing at an adjacent HT has a TK of 4+3 range -1armour=6. Not Bad! I like the option of the mortar on the Russian right. Watch the German cry as it rains shells on moving infantry and or stopped vehicles. It can easily toast a HT if it hits and has a 1/12 shot of UK or immobilize versus a panther. Both MGs and the ATR and the ATG should have LOS to the bridge to stop the HTs.
Adrian
I played two games of Panzer Marsch! this weekend. I won with the Russians both times. My set up in the first game was much like the one I sent out over the net with the exception of Carl Fago's suggestion of putting one of the T34-85s in 1P4. In the second game I put both of the 6-2-8s in the woods on the Russian right (they tried to entrench on turn 1 but were unsuccessful) with the 8-0 in the one hex stone building behind them. The mortar was exposed in 5GG10(?). The other T34-85 was in the wooden building in 1K7 or 1L7. This tank was decisive in the second game as it shelled and interdicted the infantry (KIA'd 2 squads, broke others) and blew up a Panther.
In both games The Deutschies launched their attack through the wooded stream on the Russian left. It takes at least 2-3 turns to develop this attack properly. In the first game the attack was uncoordinated and basically never left crest status. I destroyed a Panther on the bridge on the first game turn! My mortar got waxed early on. My opponent and I blew it with the rules re crest status and SW. MMG can't be fired in crest status. Russian victory with no buildings lost.
In the second game, I fell back into the buildings and made the Deutschies pay for crossing the road and using the woods. GET THIS - THE T34-85 IN 1P4 IS VULNERABLE TO LONG RANGE ATTACK FROM A PANTHER IN ONE OF THE FAR RIGHT HEXES. That will take care of the German problem of crossing the bridge (unless the ATG is placed there). My T34-85 high-tailed it out of 1P4 ASAP and got waxed in 1P9. Late in the game, a Panther moved adjacent to my HMG nest but I dusted it with a lucky T34-85 shot (APCR turret hit from 2 hexes needed a 7 to kill)! A last minute gamble with the halftracks netted one building hex at the loss of 1 HT with MMC. That pretty much sealed the game. Russian victory with 4-5 building hexes lost (9 needed for Germans to win).
Comments and or whining:
Where is a good place to put the mortar? It was exposed in 5GG10. In both games it got off 3 shots before being broken and DM'd for the duration. It did preoccupy the BMG of a Panther in both games.
The T34-85 in 1P4 ain't the panacea that it's made out to be. It can be engaged from afar.
Has anyone tried a halftrack attack on turn 4 or turn 5? This seems like the only way to win this scenario. I envision the attack coming from the bridge or through the OG stream hexes on the Russian right. Dangerous, sure, but it takes the pressure off the other flank and can cause much concern to the Russkies.
Jeff (sans crab)
After reading Jeff's (sans crab) excellent reports on Panzer Marshe! I've come to think that we either must have very different opponents, or he is great as the Russians. I have played this myself four times now, with a fifth still underway by E-mail (Yes Andres, we are still playing, and I will send my move soon!! That goes for you too Adrian...).
With apologies out of the way, I'll move to talking about the scenario in question. Jeff mentions an attack over the stream to the Russian right as being both needed, and somewhat dangerous. To me, from experience, I would say that this is the best, least dangerous option. True, there is much open ground to cover, but herein lies the reason for its use. The Russian must set up relatively strongly to protect the most obvious, and hardest for the German, place to attack. Without proper smoke placing ability (just who was that guy who chose the OB, didn't they have any Stugs sitting around) the bridge itself is just too hard to cross with the limited rout paths which exist for the attacking force.
The second reason for a strong Russian setup either covering, or near, the bridge is the more limited lines of sight/better oportunites for the defender. Anything which sets up on the Russian right is in for a serious pounding by the combined MG and gun armament of the Panthers. There is just nothing around which can hang out in this enviorment.
In the games I have played, three as the German, I have found that I can reveal anything in the trees or wooden buildings within the first 2 prep and one defensive fire phases. With a little luck, one can start on the stone building which includes 1F8 (or 6), I can't quite remember. With all these locations checked, there is no possibility of underbelly shots, the Russian defense is set into motion to counteract the strong German left, and the ability to cross over the gully, and bridge (limited) becomes a hard option for the Russian to defend. He simply cannot meet the Germans head on, for the Panthers can just sit back and toast anything which shows itself. A move to the stone is about all the Russian can counteract with.
With this said, the basic setup and 1st movement becomes one of major armored assault. The one Panther and two halftracks use armored assault to get the HMG and two MMGs into the stone building just short of the stream, with the Panther moving down the road a little to get shots over the not really there bridge. The other two hang back a little farther and attempt to take out the tanks with there guns and start razing the bushes for infantry/the gun. The other halftrack comes in one the far left, with infantry in armored assault. This includes a PSK and a couple LMGs. These guys will cross the bridge if the gun doesn't show and the Russians have started the move back to the stone locations. They can also grab that stone building in there initial movement area.
The game comes down to the Panthers shooting stuff, no sane Russian will fight the three Panthers and hope for lucky APCR/Turret hits...or is this what is needed by the Russian to win?? The Panthers shoot stuff until it is relatively clear for the crossing. One or two of the halftracks can then cross either on the left, or over the bridge. This is especially useful to create a couple TEMs so the rout situation is not so bad. If they get shot up, so what, if they don't, they stop in the first few hexes over the span, and MG stuff, a create that +1 which will allow Infantry to hand around. With this attack, the measly Russian force will have a hard time defending everything, especially once some of his stuff starts breaking and is helpless to rally due to the crummy leadership situation.
Stretch em out, chew em up, then cross nearly uncontested...if he shows himself, he can and will be destroyed. Use the Panthers as overwatch, mobile, nearly indestructible pillboxes. Once you are satisfied that Ivan either has nothing left or has showed the gun elsewhere, cross the stream. You will find that the odds favor not bogging, and you can cross with bypass via the stone firebase and woods hex on the Russian left.
Not so hard really...
Great scenario though!
Darren
Darren,
I hadn't actually intended a full scale attack on the German left but after reading your report I think it could be very successful. I just have a couple of points:
The halftracks will get eaten alive by the ATG. What do you do about it?
Doesn't the mortar in 5GG10 (board edge) threaten your advance?
With my original Ruskie set up I had only 2 squads, mrt, and ATR, plus the ATG defending that side (but another squad with lmg could see some hexes). If the brunt of the German attack falls there, these forces could cause some serious delays. I see that you could potential use the stone house and meager woods for some cover.
My opponent chose to attack through the wooded stream hexes on the German right. But I think those hexes are just too difficult to move through.
Do you put a leader, squad and HMG or MMG in the woods in 5Y4? This seems necessary to interdict potential Russian infiltration to the Russian right.
I'll have to try this scenario as the Germans....
Jeff (sans crab, again)
The last of the three Dec 23rd scenarios, this was a scenario John Knowles and I just liked the look of, and it was also a scenario neither of us were at all familiar with, as I had only printed it out the previous day in the hope that John would like to try it at some time. We were looking for something with a few AFVs, and a bit of infantry that we could finish the night on, and this was perfect. Short, small play area but enough pieces and options to make the occasional bad roll less of a game turner.
It was only while I was looking through Jacques Cuneo's AAR Page that I realised that this is a Tactiques scenario. If this is representative of the general quality of the scenarios from Tactiques, I deeply regret that the Magazine is no more, because I sure would like to play and see much more of this particular school of ASL scenario design. I guess there are no plans for someone to reprint Tactiques a la Scrounging ASL News or the ASL News Pack?[Very hopeful hint]
Reading through the AAR I can see where John's failure to interdict the 5GG10 -- 5R2 hex grain helped my cause significantly. However I almost cut my own throat with my Armoured assault on turn 1 from 5S1, 5R0. it took me until turn 3 to really get all my forces into and out of the wooded stream, but by that stage the 2 Panthers that entered via 5GG5 had managed to destroy the mortar that John had set up in 4C9 and one of the T34/85s that was situated in 1F6.
My superb 9-1 AL not only managed to Malfunction his MA, but disabled his CMG, all on the same turn! With the inability of crews to dismount voluntarily, I saw only one option for the stricken panzer: a stalking horse to tie up his reserve that was sitting ensconced in 1L5. Sure enough Kapitan Stranski ( Spot the Cross of Iron movie fan!) managed to get himself and his tank Stunned by 2 628s! Exit one worthless Panther in the Close combat phase.
Meanwhile I was being held up by John's HMG in L7 which coupled with the 9-1 was starting to wreak fearful havoc among my poor HS infantry assault. I managed to divert his attention with an assault move into 1M9 while two Psk toting HS moved into the 5S10/T10 woods to threaten his concealed T34/85. One German Defensive Fire phase later, no more T34/85.
John's two 628s were broken by a long ranged 75LL HE shot on Turn 4 that they failed to rally from three times which hurt him to the point where it cost him any chance of winning the game, and I am pretty much in agreement with him, although I feel I did actually pull off some good tactical moves in the mid stage which limited his freedom of movement and tied his defensive fire up.
From about turn four onwards, I was busy preparing to send a Spw 251 with 2 HS to seize the westernmost buildings, and it was starting to get pressing for time until I managed to finally destroy John's 57LL which was cleverly situated in 1K8. It took a DIed Panther, the final HT and the remaining mobile Panther all firing in the 1 - 2 hex range to force the win, and even then if my two surviving leaders and a couple of Half squads had not been busy picking up Victory locations, I may have run out of time. At that point John conceded the game with little or no possibility of regaining any Victory locations.
All in all, this was a great deal of fun to play, with all the excitement of Combined Arms in a manageable format. I think I may well find this scenario ends up on my Most-played list. Now that I have played it and know the essence of the scenario, I will be able to picture the AARs with far more insight and understanding. Jean-Luc Béchennec created a classic scenario with Panzers Marsch. If you haven't played it, do so soon. Even you PTO "Sands of Iwo Jima" Richard Widmark wannabes might get some fun out of this. :o)
One last point, it was interesting playing Board 1 and 5 juxtaposed like this, I actually found I was not getting too much deja vu. Also on the subject of terrain, I think for this scenario I might actually create a single map sheet for this scenario, just to avoid those pesky SSR defined Terrain problems that are creeping into ASL far too much and can really cause confusion.
Peter Palmer